Class update by the Musto Skiff Class International Committee
With the debate on the proposed new mainsail design drawing to a conclusion, and the class vote on this due to open from next week, the International Committee took this final opportunity to engage with some prominent figures within the fleet for their input and thoughts.
We put some of the most asked questions from the class members to this ‘panel group’, which included:
- Iver Ahlmann (GER)
- Gilbert Brietzke (GER)
- Paul Dijkstra (NED)
- Peter Greenhalgh (GBR)
- Jon Shelley (GBR)
- Dan Vincent (GBR)
Based on their experience and knowledge of the new mainsail design, here’s what they had to say…..
Q: How does the new mainsail change the performance of the boat, if at all, in terms of manoeuvres, pointing and speed, across a range of conditions?
Dan Vincent:
In terms of boat handling, I would say the differences are marginal. The boat seems to tack a bit easier, possibly because the leech opens more readily. I have a suspicion that in strong winds the greater area up top is more likely to drive the bow down into a nose dive. The differences in speed also seem marginal and I would have to do more 2-boat testing to be sure. In very general terms the new sail seems faster but is difficult to point as high as the old design. I think the sail designers have done a great job in delivering sail that is very close to the old sail in performance terms, maybe too close.
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Peter Greenhalgh:
– Tacking didn’t seem to be affected which I think is due to the bigger head actually opening up easier when the battens cross.
– Gybing: light medium no noticeable change. Windy conditions possibly need to run a bit more Cunningham to assist boom to cross.
– Hoist and drops I didn’t notice a difference. Bearing away in very choppy conditions did seem less forgiving.
– Pointing and speed: in 8 to 12knots maybe a small edge either in height or speed to the new sail. Below that I didn’t do enough sailing to make comment. Windy I think there is not a lot of difference possibly new sail slower but plenty of scope on the tuning front to improve that.
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Paul Dijkstra:
I think a little bit faster. I have to say that I have only sailed it once with about 9 knots of wind.
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Jon Shelley:
I understand that the sail was designed to be as similar as possible in performance terms to the current sail however inevitably there will be some difference in characteristics across the wind range. In marginal wiring conditions I felt it was lower and slower in comparison to the current sail and lacked power (I am c90kg). As conditions increased it remained lower but was perhaps marginally faster so VMG was more similar, but I wouldn’t want to try to hold a lane off the start with a mix of new and current sails. I haven’t experienced it in windy conditions. I did not notice any real difference in manoeuvres.
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Iver Ahlmann:
I haven’t tried, so I can’t comment.
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Gilbert Brietzke:
+ more gentle sailing in gusts
+ small (felt subjective) performance gain in the conditions I tested (4 to 5 bft)
Q: Do you feel the new mainsail will be a necessity to achieve a top result?
Dan Vincent:
I don’t know. In certain conditions I think it could be a decisive advantage. The worst case scenario is that in one set of conditions the new sail will be noticeably quicker, and in another set of conditions the old design will be better.
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Peter Greenhalgh:
No – you will absolutely be able to win races with the old sail against new sails.
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Paul Dijkstra:
No
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Jon Shelley:
In my view in certain conditions the new sail will overall be faster, and in other conditions I think the current sail will be faster – I think it will therefore be necessary to own both if they are both class approved to race against each other and pick for the conditions. This will also likely require some new rules which we currently don’t need / have to stop chopping and changing.
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Iver Ahlmann:
I haven’t tried, so I can’t comment. Even if the difference was small, those with old style sails would still feel disadvantaged.
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Gilbert Brietzke:
No
Q: Will the new mainsail affect the competitive weight range of the class?*
* Note the recent class survey shows 11% of sailors weigh 75-89kg, 27% are 80-84kg, 20% are 85kg to 89kg, and 17% are 90 to 94kg.
Dan Vincent:
Who knows? I think it is unlikely to change the competitive weight very much.
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Peter Greenhalgh:
I don’t think so.
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Paul Dijkstra:
I think it doesn’t matter.
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Jon Shelley:
My experience is that it may be a disadvantage to the 85kg+ sailor in medium conditions due to the points above. For me the beauty of the current sail is the relatively small wind bands when weight really makes a material difference and that this is often evened out over a championship. If the new sail doesn’t deliver this, we will lose interest in the class.
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Gilbert Brietzke:
I don’t think so – but how could one tell from just a single prototype (a single prototype-sail effectively available for only for a couple of weeks for all of continental Europe). My weight is varying between 93 and 98 kg and I liked saling the new design!
Q: The new mainsail is a different colour. Is this a dye or is it a material change, and if so, how will this affect the durability and performance over time?
We got some mixed responses here, so went direct to our sailmaker partner, Hyde Sails:
Hyde Sails:
The cloth has changed from C581 gold to C581 black, and literally the only change is that the weave is dyed black
Q: There are a couple of reports that the mainsail is making the boat nose heavy off the wind in a breeze. What is your experience and/or thoughts on this?
Dan Vincent:
Yes, I think it has made it a bit harder, but that is based on a couple of sails, so it is difficult to be definitive.
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Peter Greenhalgh:
Yup possibly a little but nothing to worry about in my opinion.
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Paul Dijkstra:
I have only sailed at 9 knots. But I can’t imagine. scare stories 🙂
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Jon Shelley:
I didn’t experience the new sail in heavy winds but I anticipate the square top could have this effect at low speeds for example hoisting and dropping in breeze.
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Iver Ahlmann:
This is the second biggest point. The sailable wind range of the Musto skiff is determined by the single sail downwind sail ability. Undoubtedly, the bigger top will lower the sailable top wind range for a given weight and skill level. In practice, depending on the kind of event, this will result in a) more people on shore while the top guys are out sailing or b) the whole fleet staying ashore more often due to safety concerns over the whole fleet. The single sail downwind sail ability is already the Achilles heel of the boat, worsening this is not wise!
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Gilbert Brietzke:
I can’t say since I only tested in flat water condition, but I also haven’t seen any of such reports.
Q: What effect do you think the new mainsail could have on the number of boats taking part at events in your area? Consider both short (<2yrs) and longer term?
Dan Vincent:
In the short term I think it may frustrate those elements of the fleet who can’t afford or can’t get new sails fast enough. I think this impact may last a while as there won’t be a large stockpile of ‘new’ second-hand sails, and poorer sailors new to the class may start to perceive they are at a disadvantage.
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Peter Greenhalgh:
So hard to say, I know we will gain a few if we make the change but we will also upset a few but at a guess not enough to leave the class and if they did then they probably were not going to stick at it anyway.
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Paul Dijkstra:
I may look at it differently. I don’t know if the new sail matters. But I do know that if we do nothing, the Musto Skiff will only be in the UK in 5 years. I’m not sure what we can do about this. I know the other discussion.
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Jon Shelley:
My fear is that during the transition period it has the potential to reduce participation which may be hard to then get back. Some will feel they can’t afford the new sail – there will likely be certain conditions where it is faster, and they won’t feel like they can compete on a level playing field so may choose not to participate. The Musto is meant to be a one design boat and having 2 different sails that can be used detracts from this ethos and may put people off the boat. Once people’s enthusiasm goes it’s very hard to replenish this. I personally don’t see any longer-term benefits of the new sail other than minor aesthetics that could be achieved in a different way.
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Iver Ahlmann:
Biggest point: The German dealer Holger Jess has practically never sold a new/spare sail to the class. This confirms that there is no natural rotation of sails. It would take 5-10y to change 80% of the fleet to the new sail (through import of used new style sails) during which time the motivation will drop and fleets will shrink to the point where the critical mass will be undercut (today already critical) and open meetings will no longer happen. The same scenario is likely in all fleets outside the UK due to the relatively low density of Musto Skiffs in those countries.
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Gilbert Brietzke:
short term: from no difference to positive effect
longer term: positive effect
Q: Any further observations you wish to make?
Dan Vincent:
Perceptions matter and the new sail seems like a lose-lose to me. It hasn’t made a big difference to the Musto Skiff experience, but it might have made enough to convince sailors that it can make a race-winning difference. Equally we can’t rule out the new sail might actually be quicker in some situations and that would be very bad, as you won’t be able to buy old design sails because they will stop manufacturing them.
The up-to-date appearance of the new sail is not in my view going to attract a larger number of new sailors than the old design. You can guess which way I will vote, but regardless of the eventual decision I will keep sailing Musto’s as they deliver great sailing and racing regardless of which sail design we choose.
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Peter Greenhalgh:
I personally don’t mind whether we change the sail or not, but I do believe strongly that a decision needs to be made asap as the uncertainty isn’t good.
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Paul Dijkstra:
No
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Jon Shelley:
Supply chain challenges could compound and elongate the transition period and the feeling of ‘have’ and ‘have not’ and thus materially impact participation and support for the class. We have seen this in the 49er. My personal view is that it makes no sense to risk what is a strongly followed and excellent class that is not in decline for no real potential gain.
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Iver Ahlmann:
Summary: Every class has a lifecycle (except rule-based classes). The Musto Skiff is a non-foiling class. It is set out as a ONE DESIGN class and therefore set out to fall behind the forefront of technology, but that is not to say that it cannot prosper for decades to come! What the class has to offer is the very large ONE DESIGN existing fleet all over the world (World Sailing), great international (!) comradery, low cost of ownership and sailing at eye level for all. The low cost, one design and international sailing at eye level spirit will be lost for 5-10 years. This will cause an attrition at the mature age of the class that during the classes’ life will never be made up again. In future, changes could be imposed onto the class for reasons beyond the classes control (e.g., mast supplier stopping supply). This will be a tough test for all, but 100% of us will stand together.
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Gilbert Brietzke:
My (opinionated) impression is: the ones that have sailed the new design tended to be positive about the design, while the ones that didn’t test-sail the new design tended to ‘conclude’ sceptical or negative. 6 german sailors (weight range 61 to 95 kg) did take the chance to actually sail the prototype which: all of them reported neutral to positive. I believe the new mainsail has the potential to slightly increase the attraction to the class in Germany. Having younger sailors join our class is vital, but it is difficult to say how much the look and feel of the more modern design scores. So, from the perspective of how it would affect numbers, I see the new design as more of a positive chance to change things than to do harm to the class.
New Mainsail Vote - Opening from 27th March 2023
We hope that this Q&A panel discussion has been useful in addition to the class updates, videos, and local reports on the new mainsail project that have been shared with the class to date.
Don’t forget that the new mainsail vote will be open from 9am (GMT) on Monday 27th March 2023.
From this date, Musto Skiff class members can vote on the new mainsail design proposal using the following online link: https://questionpro.com/t/AP0CqZw6Xn
Voting will be open for 5 weeks, closing on Sunday 30th April 2023 at 5pm (GMT).
IMPORTANT: Only current class member and life member votes will count, so please ensure your Musto Skiff class membership is up to date.
Find out more about class membership: https://mustoskiff.com/class/membership/
For the latest on the new mainsail design project: https://mustoskiff.com/date-to-vote-on-a-new-mainsail-design/
Article Updates:
16/04/23: Mainsail comparison video added
Feature photo: © Bernardí Bibiloni / www.bernardibibiloni.com
